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The text below summarises some initial thoughts on Wednesday’s tragic events by some of us here at Occupied London. English and Greek versions follow – please disseminate.
Κάποιες πρώτες σκέψεις πάνω στα τραγικά γεγονότα της Τετάρτης (5/5) από κάποιους/ες από εμάς του Occupied London. Ακολουθεί αγγλική και ελληνική έκδοση του κειμένου, παρακαλούμε διαδώστε το.
What do we honestly have to say about Wednesday’s events?
What do the events of Wednesday (5/5) honestly mean for the anarchist/anti-authoritarian movement? How do we stand in the face of the deaths of these three people – regardless of who caused them? Where do we stand as humans and as people in struggle? Us, who do not accept that there are such things as “isolated incidents” (of police or state brutality) and who point the finger, on a daily basis, at the violence exercised by the state and the capitalist system. Us, who have the courage to call things by their name; us who expose those who torture migrants in police stations or those who play around with our lives from inside glamorous offices and TV studios. So, what do we have to say now?
We could hide behind the statement issued by the Union of Bank Workers (OTOE) or the accusations by employees of the bank branch; or we could keep it at the fact that the deceased had been forced to stay in a building with no fire protection – and locked up, even. We could keep it at what a scum-bag is Vgenopoulos, the owner of the bank; or at how this tragic incident will be used to leash out some unprecedented repression. Whoever (dared to) pass through Exarcheia on Wednesday night already has a clear picture of this. But this is not where the issue lies.
The issue is for us to see what share of the responsibilities falls on us, on all of us. We are all jointly responsible. Yes, we are right to fight with all our powers against the unjust measures imposed upon us; we are right to dedicate all our strength and our creativity toward a better world. But as political beings, we are equally responsible for every single one of our political choices, for the means we have impropriated and for our silence every time that we did not admit to our weaknesses and our mistakes. Us, who do not suck up to the people in order to gain in votes, us who have no interest in exploiting anyone, have the capacity, under these tragic circumstances, to be honest with ourselves and with those around us.
What the greek anarchist movement is experiencing at the moment is some total numbness. Because there are pressurising conditions for some tough self-criticism that is going to hurt. Beyond the horror of the fact that people have died who were on “our side”, the side of the workers – workers under extremely difficult conditions who would have quite possibly chosen to march by our side if things were different in their workplace – beyond this, we are hereby also confronted with demonstrator/s who put the lives of people in danger. Even if (and this goes without question) there was no intention to kill, this is a matter of essence that can hold much discussion – some discussion regarding the aims that we set and the means that we chose.
The incident did not happen at night, at some sabotage action. It happened during the largest demonstration in contemporary greek history. And here is where a series of painful questions emerge: Overall, in a demonstration of 150-200,000, unprecedented in the last few years, is there really a need for some “upgraded” violence? When you see thousands shouting “burn, burn Parliament” and swear at the cops, does another burnt bank really have anything more to offer to the movement?
When the movement itself turns massive – say like in December 2008 – what can an action offer, if this action exceeds the limits of what a society can take (at least at a present moment), or if this action puts human lives at danger?
When we take to the streets we are one with the people around us; we are next to them, by their side, with them – this is, at the end of the day, why we work our arses off writing texts and posters – and our own clauses are a single parameter in the many that converge. The time has come for us to talk frankly about violence and to critically examine a specific culture of violence that has been developing in Greece in the past few years. Our movement has not been strengthened because of the dynamic means it sometimes uses but rather, because of its political articulation. December 2008 did not turn historical only because thousands picked up and threw stones and molotovs, but mainly because of its political and social characteristics – and its rich legacies at this level. Of course we respond to the violence exercised upon us, and yet we are called in turn to talk about our political choices as well as the means we have impropriated, recognising our – and their – limits.
When we speak of freedom, it means that at every single moment we doubt what yesterday we took for granted. That we dare to go all the way and, avoiding some cliché political wordings, to look at things straight into the eye, as they are. It is clear that since we do not consider violence to be an end to itself, we should not allow it to cast shadows to the political dimension of our actions. We are neither murderers nor saints. We are part of a social movement, with our weaknesses and our mistakes. Today, instead of feeling stronger after such an enormous demonstration we feel numb, to say the least. This in itself speaks volumes. We must turn this tragic experience into soul-searching and inspire one another since at the end of the day, we all act based on our consciousness. And the cultivation of such a collective consciousness is what is at stake._
Αλήθεια, εμείς τι έχουμε να πούμε για τα γεγονότα της Τετάρτης;
Τι σημαίνουν αλήθεια για τον αναρχικό/ αντιεξουσιαστικό χώρο τα γεγονότα της Τετάρτης 5/5; Πώς στεκόμαστε απέναντί τους, ανεξάρτητα από ποιούς προκλήθηκαν; Ως άνθρωποι και ως κοινωνικοί αγωνιστές. Για μας που δεν δεχόμαστε ότι υπάρχουν μεμονωμένα περιστατικά και που στιγματίζουμε καθημερινά τη βία που ασκεί πάνω μας το κράτος και το καπιταλιστικό σύστημα. Για μας που έχουμε το θάρρος να λέμε τα πράγματα με το όνομά τους, και ξεμπροστιάζουμε όσους βασανίζουν μετανάστες σε αστυνομικά τμήματα ή παίζουν με τις ζωές μας από πολυτελή γραφεία και τηλεπαράθυρα. Τώρα λοιπόν τι έχουμε να πούμε;
Θα μπορούσαμε να κρυφτούμε πίσω από την ανακοίνωση της ΟΤΟΕ ή τις καταγγελίες υπαλλήλων του τραπεζικού υποκαταστήματος και να μείνουμε στο ότι οι εκλιπόντες είχαν εξαναγκαστεί να μείνουν μέσα σ’ ένα κτίριο χωρίς πυρασφάλεια, και δη κλειδωμένοι. Θα μπορούσαμε να μείνουμε στο τι καθίκι είναι ο Βγενόπουλος και στο πώς πατώντας πάνω σ’ αυτό το τραγικό περιστατικό θα επακολουθήσει μια καταστολή άνευ προηγουμένου. Όποιος (τόλμησε να) περάσει χθες από τα Εξάρχεια έχει ήδη μια εικόνα. Αλλά δεν είναι εκεί το ζήτημα.
Το ζήτημα είναι να δούμε τι ευθύνες μας αναλογούν. Σε όλους μας. Είμαστε όλοι συνυπεύθυνοι. Ναι έχουμε δίκιο που αντιδρούμε με όλες μας τις δυνάμεις απέναντι στα άδικα μέτρα που μας επιβάλλουν, που αφιερώνουμε όλη μας τη δύναμη και τη δημιουργικότητα για έναν καλύτερο κόσμο. Αλλά είμαστε εξίσου υπεύθυνοι ως πολιτικά υποκείμενα για όλες μας τις πολιτικές επιλογές, για τα μέσα που έχουμε οικειοποιηθεί και για τη σιωπή μας όσες φορές δεν παραδεχτήκαμε τις αδυναμίες και τα λάθη μας. Εμείς που δεν γλείφουμε τον κοσμάκη για να κερδίσουμε ψήφους, που δεν έχουμε κανένα συμφέρον να εκμεταλλευτούμε κάποιον, έχουμε μέσα σε αυτή την τραγική συγκυρία τη δυνατότητα να είμαστε ειλικρινείς με τον εαυτό μας και τους γύρω μας.
Αυτό που βιώνει το ελληνικό α/α κίνημα αυτή τη στιγμή είναι ένα απόλυτο μούδιασμα. Διότι είναι πιεστικές οι συνθήκες για μια σκληρή αυτοκριτική που θα πονέσει. Πέρα από τη φρίκη του ότι πέθαναν άνθρωποι από «τη δική μας πλευρά», την πλευρά των εργαζομένων υπό πολύ σκληρές συνθήκες, που ενδεχομένως να είχαν επιλέξει να συμπορευτούν μαζί μας αν ήταν αλλιώς τα πράγματα στη δουλειά τους, εδώ έχουμε διαδηλωτή/ές που έθεσε σε κίνδυνο κόσμο. Αν και ασυζητητί δεν υπήρξε καμία ανθρωποκτόνος πρόθεση, το ζήτημα είναι πολύ ουσιαστικό και σηκώνει μεγάλη συζήτηση για τους σκοπούς που θέτουμε και τα μέσα που επιλέγουμε.
Το περιστατικό δεν συνέβη νύχτα, σε μια κίνηση σαμποτάζ. Συνέβη κατά τη διάρκεια της μεγαλύτερης κινητοποίησης της σύγχρονης ελληνικής ιστορίας. Κι εδώ είναι που γεννιούνται μια σειρά από επίπονα ερωτήματα: Γενικά σε μια πορεία 150-200 χιλιάδων, άνευ προηγουμένου τα τελευταία χρόνια, είναι απαραίτητη μια “αναβαθμισμένη” βία; Όταν βλέπεις χιλιάδες να φωνάζουν να καεί η Βουλή και να βρίζουν τους μπάτσους, έχει αλήθεια τίποτα παραπάνω να προσφέρει μια καμένη τράπεζα στο κίνημα; Όταν το ίδιο το κίνημα γίνεται μαζικό -καλή ώρα σαν τον Δεκέμβρη- σε τι προσφέρει μια ενέργεια αν ξεπερνάει τα όρια που μπορεί να αντέξει μια κοινωνία (τουλάχιστον στην παρούσα φάση) ή που θέτει ανθρώπινες ζωές σε κίνδυνο; Όταν κατεβαίνουμε στο δρόμο είμαστε όλοι ένα με τον κόσμο στο πλευρό μας, είμαστε δίπλα του, μαζί του –γι’ αυτό άλλωστε ξεσκιζόμαστε να γράφουμε κείμενα και αφίσες– και οι δικοί μας όροι, είναι μία παράμετρος στις πολλές που συναντιούνται. Έφτασε η στιγμή να μιλήσουμε για τη βία έξω από τα δόντια και να παρατηρήσουμε κριτικά την κουλτούρα της βίας που αναπτύσσεται στην Ελλάδα τα τελευταία χρόνια. Το κίνημά μας δεν έχει ισχυροποιηθεί λόγω των δυναμικών μέσων που ενίοτε χρησιμοποιεί αλλά χάρη στον πολιτικό του λόγο. Ο Δεκέμβρης δεν έμεινε στην ιστορία μόνο επειδή σήκωσαν και πέταξαν χιλιάδες πέτρες και μολότοφ, αλλά κυρίως για τα πολιτικοκοινωνικά του χαρακτηριστικά και την πλούσια παρακαταθήκη του σε αυτό το επίπεδο. Βεβαίως και αντιδρούμε στη βία που ασκείται πάνω μας, αλλά καλούμαστε κι εμείς με τη σειρά μας να μιλήσουμε για τις πολιτικές μας επιλογές, αλλά και για τα μέσα που οικειοποιηθήκαμε, αναγνωρίζοντας τα όριά μας και τα όριά τους.
Όταν μιλάμε για ελευθερία, σημαίνει ότι κάθε στιγμή αμφισβητούμε ό,τι θεωρούσαμε δεδομένο μέχρι χθες. Ότι τολμάμε να μπήξουμε το μαχαίρι ως το κόκκαλο και αποφεύγοντας έναν κλισέ πολιτικό λόγο, κοιτάμε κατάματα τα πράγματα ως έχουν. Είναι σαφές ότι αφού δεν θεωρούμε ότι η βία είναι αυτοσκοπός, δεν πρέπει να την αφήσουμε να επισκιάσει την πολιτική διάσταση των πράξεών μας. Δεν είμαστε ούτε δολοφόνοι ούτε άγιοι. Ένα κομμάτι ενός κοινωνικού κινήματος είμαστε, με τις αδυναμίες και τα λάθη μας. Σήμερα αντί να νιώθουμε δυνατοί μετά από μια τόσο μεγάλη πορεία, νιώθουμε (το λιγότερο) μουδιασμένοι. Αυτό από μόνο του λέει πολλά. Πρέπει να μετουσιώσουμε αυτή την τραγική εμπειρία σε προβληματισμό και να εμπνεύσουμε ο ένας τον άλλον, διότι εντέλει όλοι πράττουμε κατά συνείδηση. Και η καλλιέργεια αυτής της συλλογικής συνείδησης είναι το μεγάλο διακύβευμα._
67 Comments
Excellent,precise and right to the point!It is very unfortunate that this discussion starts with the ghosts of 3 people around us.
Thank You for this words!
In solidarity
(A)
I discovered this board by chance when someone linked back to it from an article on the Huffington Post.
My original intent was merely to post a comment (more like troll) about the reaction many Greeks were having about the economic measures being put forth.
At this point although I was not fond of the so-called anarchist movement in Greece, I never feared it because although there had been extensive property damage and rioting, there had never been any serious injuries to anyone that I had heard of. This I felt was consistent with the society of Greece as a whole where voices are often raised but fists rarely are.
What transpired on Wednesday really angered me though. A line had been crossed. This is what is very scary.
It is very relieving to hear that the people behind this board understand the significance of the events that led to the deaths of those innocent people and have called for some serious introspection.
Finnish translation:
http://takku.net/article.php/20100507-occupied-london-ateenasta
Cynical. First, no one takes responsabilities for something, starting to point out other people errors or crimes. Second, what the text is saying is that throwing bombs inside a bank in that particular situation and moment, was a tactical error, and that the deaths were collateral dammage.
And why do you say the people who have died was on your side? Not every working class person in greece likes you, or your actions. Don’t get so vain or arrogant.
Hypocrisy: a word with a Greek (sorry, greek) origin.
I’ll write a longer comment when time permits.
@ ALFREDO
They are taking responsibility for participating in a political scene that supports traditionally these kind of actions.
They were not policemen, nor businessmen, they were workers, the same class. If the rest of the working class does not understand what class unity is, it’s not their fault.
Should the state release the alleged CCTV footage of the incident, then the @ ‘movement’ will face an ENORMOUS backlash.
Whoever is to blame, one thing is certain: Naive, fanatical, self-appointed ‘saviours of the people’ who operate along semi-clandestine ‘urban guerilla’ lines need an urgent dose of self-reflection.-
“We have no respect; we do not expect any from you. When our turn comes, we will not embellish violence” (Marx)
“Victory will be for those who will have been able to create chaos without loving it” (Debord)
Gremlin,
Who were “they”, the guys how threw the bombs? Do you know them? So, you can tell me why they qualify as “workers”.
Spanish translation here:
http://www.alasbarricadas.org/noticias/?q=node/13972
German Translation on indymedia, as a comment:
http://de.indymedia.org/2010/05/280640.shtml
@ ALFREDO
I think this statement is very honest about the responsibility that needs to be taken by the “anarchist movement”. Yes, the action was an autonomous decision by an individual(s), but the fact that it happened in the context that it did means that every one of us needs to consider it’s implications morally, politically and yes, tactically. And though no one here actually threw the bomb, responsibility has to be taken for any ideas or beliefs we hold or previously held that may have led us to do the same if placed in the same position.
I’v felt extremely uncomfortable with the reaction of some people to this tragic accident, who have attempted to shift blame onto the usual suspects of the banks or the police. Of course their role must be taken into account but not at the expense of our own. I think this statement was saying the same to an extent.
1165451
Οι ηθικοί αυτουργοί της MARFIN αλλά και μια δόση αυτοκριτικής
από J 6:14μμ, Παρασκευή 7 Μαΐου 2010
(Τροποποιήθηκε 6:34μμ, Παρασκευή 7 Μαΐου 2010)
Με αφορμή την ανακοίνωση της Occupied London κάποιες σκέψεις για την MARFIN με διάθεση αυτοκριτικής
Ο ηθικός αυτουργός για τους θανάτους των τριών τραπεζοϋπαλλήλων είναι το ΠΟΛΙΤΙΚΟ ΣΥΣΤΗΜΑ και οι τράπεζες που έμειναν ανοικτές τέτοια μέρα στο κέντρο, θυσιάζοντας τη ζωή και την σωματική ακεραιότητα των εργαζόμενων μην τυχόν και χάσουν τα υπερκέρδη μιας μέρας. Πρέπει να αναθεματίζουμε τον Βγενόπουλο που ασκώντας ωμή εργοδοτική τρομοκρατία ανάγκασε τους υπαλλήλους του να δουλέψουν σε μέρα ΓΕΝΙΚΗΣ ΑΠΕΡΓΙΑΣ με την απειλή της απόλυσης. Μάλιστα όλα αυτά ενώ όλοι γνωρίζουμε ότι οι τράπεζες ΕΙΝΑΙ ΣΤΟΧΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΚΑΛΩΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ αφού για να μην χάσουν χρήματα οι δισεκατομμυριούχοι των τραπεζών και οι υπερεθνικοί πιστωτές τους επιβάλλονται στα μη-προνομιούχα κοινωνικά στρώματα τα πιο σκληρά οικονομικά μέτρα αφαίμαξης του ήδη περιορισμένου εισοδήματος τους. Μην μασάμε λοιπόν από την προπαγάνδα των συστημικών ΜΜΕ και των απατεώνων της εξουσίας. Θέλουν να μας εκφοβίσουν για να ελέγξουν αντιδράσεις που τείνουν να λάβουν ανεξέλεγκτη μορφή.
Η αντιβία έχει στόχο πάντα την ΠΕΡΙΟΥΣΙΑ των καπιταλιστών, ΠΟΤΕ ΤΗΝ ΖΩΗ ΚΑΝΕΝΟΣ και φυσικά όχι των εργαζόμενων. Πενήντα χρόνια οι αναρχικοί κάνουν παρόμοιες ενέργειες. Ποτέ δεν έχουν στραφεί ενάντια στην ανθρώπινη ζωή και πάντα παίρνουν μέτρα και εκκενώνουν τα κτίρια που πρόκειται να πυρπολήσουν. Επιπλέον, τη στιγμή της επίθεσης το ισόγειο ήταν άδειο και δεν εξυπηρετούσε κόσμο, ούτε υπάλληλοι υπήρχαν εκεί. Πώς να γνωρίζει κάποιος ότι οι βρικόλακες της MARFIN κρατούσαν κόσμο με το ζόρι μέσα να δουλεύει ενώ ήξεραν πως υπήρχε η ΓΕΝΙΚΗ ΑΠΕΡΓΙΑ και στο κέντρο σήμερα θα ΠΟΛΕΜΟΣ; Για κάθε αντικαπιταλιστή οι τράπεζες είναι ΝΟΜΙΜΟΣ ΣΤΟΧΟΣ. Η ηγεσία της MARFIN και το σύστημα που μας έφερε σε αυτήν την κατάσταση είναι οι ΗΘΙΚΟΙ ΑΥΤΟΥΡΓΟΙ ΚΑΙ ΠΡΕΠΕΙ ΝΑ ΠΛΗΡΩΣΟΥΝ Η οδύνη μας για τους νεκρούς πρέπει να γίνει οργή που θα παρασύρει όλο το σάπιο πολιτικό σύστημα.
Η συμπαράσταση μας πάει στα στέκια και τις καταλήψεις που δέχτηκαν τη δολοφονική επιδρομή των αστυνομικών δυνάμεων κατοχής του ελληνικού κράτους. Είναι εμφανές άλλωστε ότι οι ελίτ σκοπεύουν να εκμεταλλευτούν πολιτικά το ατυχές συμβάν στο έπακρο για να εξαπολύσουν γενικευμένη επίθεση ενάντια στον αναρχικό χώρο. Ο δήμαρχος Αθήνας καλούσε χθες από τα τηλεπαράθυρα την πολιτεία να τσουβαλιάσει μαζικά τους αναρχικούς και να διαλύσει τα στέκια τους με τη βία. Απώτερος στόχος είναι η αποδυνάμωση του αναρχικού κινήματος την κρίσιμη αυτή ώρα και η καταστολή των εξεγερσιακών αντανακλαστικών του πλήθους που την 5η Μαΐου έδειξε για πρώτη φορά ότι πάει να απελευθερωθεί από τον ζουρλομανδύα που του έχουν φορέσει τα πολιτικά κόμματα και τα επίσημα συνδικάτα.
Είναι φασίστας ή χαζός όποιος εκμεταλλεύεται την μνήμη των αδικοχαμένων νεκρών για να απαξιώσει τη λαϊκή αντιβία και να παίξει τον ρόλο του υπερασπιστή των τραπεζιτών. Ακριβώς αυτή την γραμμή υιοθέτησαν και οι αρχηγοί των κομμάτων της κοινοβουλευτικής χούντας που μας κυβερνά στους λόγους που εκφώνησαν κατά τη διάρκεια της χθεσινής συζήτησης για το νομοσχέδιο. Όσοι αναπαράγουν αυτές τις απόψεις λειτουργούν ως κατάπτυστα παπαγαλάκια του συστήματος.
Από την άλλη, δεν μπορώ να μην πω πως χρειάζεται και κάποια δόση αυτοκριτικής εκ μέρους του χώρου. Εκφράζω προσωπικές απόψεις αλλά θεωρώ πως για να έχει νόημα η άμεση δράση και η αντιβία σε βάρος της περιουσίας των ελίτ της αγοράς πρέπει να καθοδηγείται κι από πολιτική ευφυΐα και να εναρμονίζεται με στοιχειώδη κριτήρια.
Θεωρώ, κι ελπίζω να μην είμαι ο μόνος, ότι οι στόχοι πρέπει να επιλέγονται με βάση τη συμβολική αξία τους, να βλάπτουν τα μεγάλα οικονομικά συμφέροντα (πολυεθνικές, εγχώριο μεγάλο κεφάλαιο), να αυξάνουν το πραγματικό οικονομικό κόστος με το οποίο επιβαρύνονται οι οικονομικές ελίτ για να αποκαταστήσουν τη λειτουργία των καταστημάτων, να έχουν ένα βαθμό απήχησης οι επιθέσεις στον κόσμο. Πάνω απ’ όλα, πρέπει να λαμβάνονται όλα τα μέτρα για την προστασία της ανθρώπινης ζωής πριν από τις επιθέσεις. Αυτό που είδα χθες γενικά σε όλη τη διάρκεια της πορείας ήταν αρκετοί πιτσιρικάδες οι οποίοι έκαναν πλάκα κι έσπαγαν ότι έβρισκαν πιο βολικό και πρόχειρο, χωρίς ίχνος πολιτικής συνείδησης, σκοπιμότητας ή κριτηρίου. Αυτή η χαλαρότητα κάνει κακό στον χώρο και δυσφημεί τους αναρχικούς. Πρώτοι οι αναρχικοί πρέπει να βάλουν όρια στα ανεξέλεγκτα χουλιγκανίστικα στοιχεία που δρουν μέσα στις πορείες τους. Δεν τα χρειαζόμαστε τη στιγμή που η απηυδισμένη κοινωνία φαίνεται να πλησιάζει προς το μέρος μας. Ο χουλιγκανισμός μόνο μαύρες μέρες μπορεί να φέρει και να απαξιώσει τη λαϊκή αντιβία η οποία πρέπει να ασκείται οργανωμένα και υπεύθυνα ή να μην ασκείται καθόλου. Συμφωνώ εν μέρει με την ανακοίνωση των Occupied London (http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&from_admin=1&article_id=1165177), αλλά δεν είμαι υπέρ της ολοκληρωτικής εγκατάλειψης της αντιβίας ως μέσου. Χρειάζεται όμως να τονιστεί το πολιτικό κίνητρο των επιθέσεων μας, οι επιθέσεις να γίνονται επιλεκτικά και λελογισμένα. Όσα άτομα έχουν παρεισφρήσει στον χώρο και δεν μπορούν να προσαρμοστούν σε αυτά τα στοιχειώδη δεδομένα της άμεσης δράσης θα πρέπει να απομονωθούν και κάποια στιγμή να τα αποκόψουμε εντελώς.
Επίσης, νομίζω ότι πρέπει τώρα να δούμε πώς θα φτιάξουμε μόνιμους θεσμούς αυτοοργάνωσης σε μαζική κοινωνική κλίμακα μαζί με τον κόσμο που σιγά, σιγά ξυπνάει από τον λήθαργο κι έχει πραγματικά σιχαθεί το πολιτικό σύστημα. Να ενθαρρύνουμε την μαζική συμμετοχή σε τέτοιους θεσμούς και να μελετήσουμε το πλαίσιο όπου η γενικευμένη αυτοδιεύθυνση της κοινωνίας είναι δυνατή. Όταν ο παραδειγματισμός δεν χρειάζεται πια είναι νομίζω ώρα να δούμε πώς θα περάσουμε στο επόμενο στάδιο. Αν δεν γίνει αυτό, το πλήθος που βράζει από θυμό για τον εμπαιγμό του από τις ελίτ που το κυβερνούν είναι αναγκασμένο να περιμένει από τα κομματόσκυλα της ΓΣΕΕ και της ΑΔΕΔΥ πότε θα προκηρύξουν την επόμενη μονοήμερη απεργία της πλάκας για να βρει βήμα μέσω του οποίου θα εκφράσει την οργή του. Ας ανοίξουν τα στέκια, οι καταλήψεις και οι συλλογικότητες μια συζήτηση για αυτό το θέμα κι ας διαβουλευτούν συλλογικά για το τι προτάσεις και ιδέες υπάρχουν. Νομίζω πως οι συνθήκες έχουν πλέον ωριμάσει για να αρχίσει τώρα ένα νέο είδος αγώνα, πιο επίπονο και μακροπρόθεσμο, αλλά δυνητικά απελευθερωτικό.
Keep things in scale.
There is no good reason to be numbed by this. It changes NOTHING.
There is ALWAYS a risk of someone accidentally dying in an unpredictable effect of an ordinary action – driving a car is an obvious example. It is tragic when it happens, but it is not a reason to ‘reassess’ actions unless it is a predictable effect. In this case, it is not a predictable effect: people reasonably assumed there would be no-one working in banks along the demo route; thousands of Molotovs are thrown every year and no-one is usually killed.
If you once start down the path of restraining actions because of things which might go wrong, you might as well give up. You can’t even do nonviolent direct action – what if blocking a road stops an ambulance, what if blocking a doorway stops someone getting out in an emergency?
And remember the stakes. Neoliberalism kills millions. Why are these three lives worth more, simply because they are visible in the corporate media?!
If you are numbed now then you did not have the courage of your convictions to begin with, you were just PLAYING at insurrection. Wake up.
How can anything that is the result of throwing a Molotov be considered an accident?
Seriously–The capitalists consider “collateral damage” to be aceptable in times of war–the death of innocent women, children, non-combatants, etc.
If this global anarchist movement is impeded by the unfortunate deaths of several people, then WE have no chance of winning against ruthless mercenary forces.
Zagarna and ‘pigfuckers’ have good points – the State and the capitalists are obviously seizing upon these deaths like vultures, for the explicit purpose of numbing the movement. They do not play and replay videos of those murdered every day around the world through starvation wages, or those murdered in the bombings of cities in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.
However, it is not necessarily ourselves who are the target of this propaganda. It is the larger population that may or may not stand with us when it’s necessary. And so, even though we understand that these deaths are tragic accidents, the same as if a car driving to a demo hit and killed a pedestrian, we have to be conscious of how OTHERS understand these actions before we choose how to react… and I think this piece is a response to exactly that. Even though we know the movement cannot be held responsible, we must take responsibility anyway. Does that make sense (to those of you who care, not to the trolls)?
why are anarchists making excuses for authoritarianism and vanguardism? shouldnt they be fucking outraged at this?
Coyote, throwing a bomb is not like driving a car. Moreover, if the deaths of workers do not affect you, remember that the reason “the State and the capitalists are obviously seizing upon these deaths like vultures, for the explicit purpose of numbing the movement” is because of the bomb thrower. It doesn’t ultimately matter if the bomb thrower was a sincere anarchist or a police provocateur. In either case, workers were killed, and the cause of freedom from capitalism was badly hurt.
Türkish:
Çarşamba olaylarına dair dürüstçe ne düşünüyoruz?
Anarşist/anti-otoriter hareket için Çarşamba (5/5) gerçekleşen olaylar dürüstçe ne anlama geliyor? O üç insanın ölümleri karşısında nasıl duracağız – buna neden olana hiç bakmadan? Mücadelede insanlar ve halk olarak nerede duruyoruz? Polis veya devlet terörünin “birbirinden ayrı olaylar” olarak gördüğü şeyleri kabul etmeyen ve gündelik temelde devletin ve kapitalist sistemin uyguladığı şiddete işaret eden bizler. Şeyleri isimleriyle anma cesareti olan bizler; polis karakolunda göçmenlere işkence yapanları ya da büyüleyici ofisler ve TV stüdyoları içerisinde yaşamlarımızla oynayanları ifşa eden bizler. O halde şimdi ne söylemeliyiz?
Bizler Banka Çalışanları Sendikasının (OTOE) yayınladığı açıklamaların veya banka şubesi çalışanlarının suçlamalarının arkasına saklanabiliriz; merhumların hiçbir yangın güvenliği olmayan bir binada kalmaya zorlandıkları ve hatta kilitlendikleri gerçeği üzerinde yoğunlaşmaya devam edebiliriz. Banka sahibi Vgenopoulos‘un ne kadar aşağılık biri olduğunu söylemeye devam edebiliriz; ya da bu trajik olayın benzeri görülmemiş bir baskı furyasına fırsat vereceğine odaklanabiliriz. Çarşamba akşamı Exarcheia‘dan her kim geçmeye cesaret ederse bununla ilgili net bir resim gözünde canlanabilir. Ancak bu sorunun yattığı yer değildir.
Sorun bizim için bize düşen, hepimize düşen sorumlulukları paylaşmayı bilmektir. Hepimiz bağlantılı olarak sorumluyuz. Evet, bizlere dayatılan adaletsiz kemer sıkma politikalarına karşı iktidarlarımızla savaşmaya hakkımız vardır; Tüm gücümüzü ve yaratıcılığımızı daha iyi bir dünyaya adama hakkımız vardır. Fakat politikanın başladığı yerde, bizler politik seçimlerimizden her birinden, uygun gördüğümüz her araçtan ve kabul etmediğimiz zayıflıklarımızı ve hatalarımız karşısındaki sessizliğimizden eşit derecede sorumluyuz. Seçimlerde kazanmak için insanlara yalakalık yapmayan bizler, herhangi birini sömürmekle ilgilenmeyen bizler bu trajik şartlar altında kendimize ve çevremizdekilere dürüst olma kapasitemiz vardır.
Yunanistan anarşist hareketinin şu an deneyimlediği şey topyekün hissizliktir. Çünkü incitecek sert öz-eleştiri için baskı koşulları var. „Bizim tarafımızda“, işçilerin tarafında olan insanların – iş yerlerinde durumlar biraz farklı olsa muhtemelen yanımızda yürüyecek olan ve aşırı derecede zor koşullar altındaki işçiler – ölmüş olduğu korkunç gerçeğinin ötesinde bu işçiler halkın yaşamlarını tehlikeye atan göstericilerle böylelikle karşı karşıya geldiler. Öldürmek için kasıt olsa bile (ve bunda herhangi bir sorgu yoksa), bu çok fazla tartışma gerektiren temeli olan bir durumdur – hedeflediğimiz amaçları ve seçtiğimiz araçları ilgilendiren bazı tartışmalar.
Olay gece bir sabotaj eyleminde gerçekleşmiyor. Yunanistan tarihindeki en büyük gösterisinde gerçekleşiyor. Ve burada bir dizi acı dolu soru beliriyor: Tam 150-200,000 kişilik bir gösteride, son bir kaç yılda eşi benzeri görülmemiş, „geliştirilmiş“ şiddete gerçekten gerek var mıydı? Binlerin „Yakın, Parlamentoyu yakın“ dediğini ve polislere küfür ettiğini gördüğünüzde, yanmış başka bir banka harekete gerçekten daha fazla şey mi katar?
Hareketin kendisi muazzam boyuta geldiğinde – Aralık 2008 gibi diyelim – bir eylem ne getirir, şayet bu eylem bir toplumun alabileceğinin limitlerini aşarsa (en azından şu anda), ya da şayet bu eylem insanların hayatlarını tehlikeye atarsa?
Sokakları ele geçirdiğimizde çevremizdeki insanlar arasında tekiz; bizler onların tarafından, onların yanında, onlarla birlikteyiz – bu, günün sonunda, metinleri yazmamızın, posterleri asmamızın sebebidir – ve kendi sözlerimiz bir çoğunu yakınlaştıran tek bir değişkendir. Şiddet hakkında açıkça konuşmamızın ve geçtiğimiz bir kaç yılda Yunanistan‘da gelişen spesifik bir şiddet kültürünü eleştirel olarak incelememizin zamanı gelmiştir. Hareketimiz kendi politik ekleminden ziyade bazen kullandığı dinamik araçlardan dolayı güçlenemiyor. Aralık 2008, sadece binler greve gitti, taş ve molotof attı diye değil büyük ölçüde politik ve sosyal karakteristiğinden dolayı tarihe geçti – ve bu düzeyde kendi zengin mirasından dolayı. Tabii ki, bize uygulanan şiddete cevap vereceğiz ama henüz kendimizin ve onların limitlerinin farkında bir biçimde uygun gördüğümüz araçlarla politik seçimlerimiz hakkında konuşmaya ihtiyacımız var.
Özgürlükten bahsettiğimizde, bu, dün özümsediğimiz şeyden her an şüphe duyacağımız anlamına gelir. Her yola gidebilmekten çekinmeyiz ve bazı klişe politik sözlerden kaçınarak şeylerin gözlerine doğrudan bakabilmeliyiz. Şiddeti kendi başına bir amaç olarak benimsemediğimizden dolayı bizler eylemlerimizin politik boyutlarına gölge düşürmemiz gerektiği açıktır. Bizler ne katiliz ne de evliya. Zayıflıklarımız ve hatalarımızla bizler sosyal bir hareketin parçalarıyız. Bugün, Böyle muazzam bir gösteriden sonra daha güçlü hissetmek yerine bizler bir şeyler söylemeyecek kadar hissiziz. Bu kendi içinde çok anlamlıdır. Bu trajik deneyimi vicdan muhasebesine çevirmek ve günün sonundan bu yana birbirimize ilham vermek zorundayız, hepimiz bilinçlerimizle eyliyoruz. Ve böyle bir kolektif bilincin işlenmesi menfaatimizedir.
proposition of french translation
Qu’est-ce que les événements du mercredi mai 2010 (incendie de la banque Marfin à Athènes et mort de trois personnes) signifie, honnêtement, pour l’anarchiste / anti-autoritaire ?
Où en sommes-nous par rapport à la mort de ces trois personnes, peu importe qui en est la cause ?
Où en sommes-nous en tant qu’ êtres humains et en tant que peuple en lutte ?
Nous, qui n’acceptons pas les “incidents isolés” (de police ou de violence de l’État) et qui montrons du doigt, sur une base quotidienne, la violence exercée par l’État et le système capitaliste.
Nous qui avont le courage d’appeler les choses par leur nom; nous qui dénonçons ceux qui torturent les migrants dans les postes de police ou ceux qui jouent autour de nos vies à l’intérieur des bureaux glamour et des studios TV.
Alors, qu’est-ce que nous avons à dire maintenant?
On pourrait se cacher derrière la déclaration publiée par le Syndicat des travailleurs de la Banque (OTOE) ou les accusations portées par des employés de la succursale de la banque, ou nous pourrions nous cacher derrière le fait que le défunt avait été forcé de rester dans un bâtiment sans protection contre l’incendie – et enfermé, même.
On pourrait maintenir le fait que le propriétaire de la banque,Vgenopoulos, est un sac à écume, ou que cet incident tragique sera utilisé pour justifier quelques répression sans précédent. Celui qui a osé passer par Exarcheia mercredi soir en a déjà une idée claire. Mais ce n’est pas le problème.
La question est pour nous de voir quelle part de responsabilités tombe sur nous, sur nous tous. Nous sommes tous responsables. Oui, nous sommes en droit de se battre avec toutes nos forces contre les mesures injustes imposées sur nous; nous sommes en droit de consacrer toutes nos forces et notre créativité à un monde meilleur. Mais en tant qu’être politique, nous sommes également responsables de chacun de nos choix politiques, les moyens que nous nous sommes appropriés et de notre silence à chaque fois que nous n’avons pas admettre nos faiblesses et nos erreurs. Nous, qui ne flattons pas la population afin de gagner des votes, nous qui n’avons aucun intérêt à exploiter le monde, avons la capacité, dans ces circonstances tragiques, d’être honnête avec nous-même et avec ceux qui nous entourent.
Ce que le mouvement anarchiste grec connaît à l’heure actuelle un certain engourdissement total. Parce qu’il y’ a beaucoup de pression et les conditions sont difficiles pour une auto-critique quand ça va mal. Au-delà de l’horreur du fait que les gens sont morts et qui étaient de “notre côté”, du côté des travailleurs – qui travaillaient dans des conditions extrêmement difficiles et qui auraient très probablement choisi de marcher à nos côtés si les choses étaient différentes dans leur milieu de travail – au-delà de ce fait , ont été également présentés comme confrontés aux manifestants qui mettent la vie des gens en danger. Même si (et cela va sans dire) il n’y avait aucune intention de tuer, c’est une question essentielle qui peut contenir beaucoup de discussions – une discussion sur les objectifs que nous avons fixés et les moyens que nous avons choisi.
L’incident n’a pas eu lieu la nuit, n’est pas une action de sabotage. Il s’est passé pendant la plus grande manifestation dans l’histoire grecque contemporaine. Et c’est là qu’une série de questions douloureuses émergent: dans une démonstration de 150-200 000 personnes sans précédent dans les dernières années, y’ a-t-il vraiment un besoin pour certains d’user de la violence? Lorsque vous voyez des milliers criant «brûler, brûler le Parlement» et jurer face à la police, qu’est ce qu’une autre banque qui brûle a vraiment à offrir de plus au mouvement de contestation ?
Quand le mouvement prend de l’ampleur, comme en Décembre 2008 – que peut faire ce type d’action, quand cette action dépasse les limites de ce qu’une société peut prendre (au moins au moment présent), ou si cette action met des vies humaines en danger ?
Quand nous prenons la rue nous sommes un avec les gens autour de nous, nous sommes à côté d’eux, de leur côté, avec eux – c’est pourquoi , à la fin de la journée, nous travaillons comme des ânes à l’écriture de textes et d’affiches – et nos propres clauses sont un seul paramètre dans lesquels beaucoup convergent . Le moment est venu pour nous de parler franchement de la violence et à un examen critique d’une culture de violence qui a été mis au point en Grèce dans les dernières années. Notre mouvement n’a pas été renforcée en raison de la dynamique des moyens qu’elle utilise parfois, mais plutôt en raison de son articulation politique. Décembre 2008 n’est pas seulement un tournant historique parce que des milliers de personnes ont ramassé et jeté des pierres et des molotovs, mais principalement en raison de ses caractéristiques politiques et sociales – et de son riche héritage à ce niveau. Bien sûr, nous répondons à la violence exercée sur nous, et pourtant nous sommes appelés à notre tour de parler de nos choix politiques ainsi que les moyens que nous avons choisis, la reconnaissance de nos et de leurs – limites.
Quand nous parlons de liberté, cela signifie qu’à chaque instant nous doutons de ce que nous avons pris pour acquis hier.
Que l’on ose aller jusqu’au bout et, en évitant certaines formulations et clichés politique, à regarder les choses directement comme elles sont. Il est clair que, puisque nous ne considérons pas la violence comme une fin en soi, nous ne devons pas lui permettre de faire de l’ombre à la dimension politique de nos actions. Nous ne sommes ni assassins, ni saints. Nous faisons partie d’un mouvement social, avec nos faiblesses et nos erreurs.
Aujourd’hui, au lieu de se sentir plus fort après une manifestation d’une telle ampleur est le fait que nous nous sentons engourdis, pour en dire le moins. En soi, cela en dit long. Nous devons faire de cette tragique expérience une introspection et nous inspirer les uns les autres car, à la fin de la journée, nous avons tous agis en fonction de notre conscience.
Et la culture d’une telle prise de conscience collective est en jeu.
http://probe.20minutes-blogs.fr/archive/2010/05/07/proposition-traduction-what-do-we-honestly-have-to-say-about.html
amitiés
Greetings,
I hope you are all well.
The battle will be won through the hearts and minds of the people and not through violence. Yes the oppressive regimes dismiss the deaths of tens of thousands as collateral damage. We deplore the human loss of human life that is one thing that seperates us from the pigs.
We cannot become the beast in trying to destroy the beast!
One day the armies of the world will be called out to meet the masses in the streets! The question will then become, which way will they turn the weapons? Onto the masses or towards their commanding officers? Or perhaps if we are wisely diligent they will decide not to deploy at all!!!
Let me illustrate by example. A police officer is killed. He was a vile man, abused his position of authority and power, shook down drug dealers for money, took advantage of the whores, beat the homeless. (Of course all police are not like this.) Then one day on the streets something goes wrong and the cop is blown away. What happens? The police gather in masses to pay tribute to their fallen comrade in arms. The crying wife and children are handed a flag and the badge of the deceased. The mayor gives a speech and condolances. A hero and a martyr for the state is born!
It may be a mockery of the Truth but it is what occurs. The capitalists will exploit everything for their own benefit, that is their nature.
The victory of revolution is not won in a mass uprising but by one convert at a time. Love, compassion and a true spirit of brotherhood is what one is converted to. We are dedicated to a better world for all. The capitalists are dedicated to a better world for themselves. That is the fundamental divide.
Love,
John Kaniecki
All the oppressed people have right to fight for a better life condiction; that is all.
I’m an italian student; a napolitain student, so i knew in my short life a lot of police brutality and i know how strong could be the people response to all this kind of political use of the Police.
But our role is to respect all life, even those that we with a peaceful event could destroy.
I don’t condamn the violence, but it must not be a poor against more poor violence.
I’m really sorry for my orrible, orrible english.
Hasta Siempre
Lorenzo
F.U.C.K.
Future Under Construction Kollective Napoli
You have already lost the war on capitalism by setting fire to the bank and in fact killing the three people inside. That is bad tactics.
For those who read greek , this is my post. It is an answer to the criticism.
Let’s make these deaths an opportunity for change. Since December 2008 a part of the movement has gone far away from us, causing a lot of unnecessary damage and pain to the society.
I think that this self punishment (even harsh criticism) over the tragic incident clearly shows the limits of the movement, or name it however you like.
If it was to read itself as a solid power against Power it wouldn’t feel so much at stake after this event. If it knew that it was something more than a ‘revolutionary gymnastics’ public show it would have felt more at ease with the tragic event.
Since everyone realizes, usually alone in front of their laptop, that the authentic opposition power (such as anti-capitalists with brains) do not feel or think that there is much space for the cultivation of Real and existent alternative realities within this planet at this particular historical moment, it is only natural to feel in the mood for soul searching.
I do understand though the emotionality about this sad incident. I also do recognize many local or small victories that have been achieved because of the commitment and the actions of many people that belong to anarchist, autonomous groups.
sory i can’t reads all ya blurbs. regarding tvxs.gr one hooded: hooded police hooded nazi hooded riot tourist hooded hooded?
wait for updates
and tell us about the robbers in black
are there yet 8?
free the athens 7
or 8?
“Our movement has not been strengthened because of the dynamic means it sometimes uses but rather, because of its political articulation.”
I disagree 100%, the reason that the Greek movement has gotten where it is, while other more pacifistic and unaggressive anarchist movements have failed, is because of the violence. I’m sorry, but it’s true. Violence has worked wonders for the Greek anarchist movement and will continue to do so. Obviously the 3 deaths raise questions about tactics, and people need to be VERY careful how they use violence, but this statement of yours is nonsense. Utter nonsense.
Don’t give up the fight! You are example for every working class people in Europe!
Fuck Wall Street, fuck IMF, fuck capitalism!
Best regards from Croatia!
[Grécia] O que temos honestamente a dizer sobre os acontecimentos de Quarta?
[O texto a seguir resume alguns pensamentos iniciais sobre os trágicos eventos de quarta de alguns de nós aqui da Occupied London [After the Greek Riots] Seguem versões em inglês e grego [e agora português] – por favor, espalhem.]
O que temos honestamente a dizer sobre os acontecimentos de Quarta?
O que os eventos de quarta-feira (5 de maio) significam honestamente para o movimento anarquista/anti-autoritário? Como encaramos a morte dessas três pessoas – independentemente de quem tenha causado? Onde nos posicionamos como humanos e como povo na luta? Nós, que não aceitamos coisas como “incidentes isolados” (da polícia ou brutalidade estatal) e que apontamos o dedo, em uma base diária, para a violência exercida pelo Estado e pelo sistema capitalista. Nós, que temos a coragem de chamar as coisas pelo nome, nós que expomos os que torturam imigrantes em quartéis da polícia ou aqueles que brincam com nossas vidas de dentro de escritórios luxuosos e estúdios de TV. Então, o que temos a dizer agora?
Poderíamos nos esconder atrás da declaração emitida pelo Sindicato dos Bancários (OTOE) ou das acusações dos empregados do setor bancário; ou poderíamos dizer que o fato foi que os mortos foram forçados a ficar em um prédio sem proteção contra incêndios – até mesmo trancados. Poderíamos culpar a escória do Vgenopoulos, o dono do banco; ou o quão esse trágico incidente será usado para lançar uma repressão sem precedentes. Qualquer um (que ousou) passar por Exarchia na quarta a noite teve uma idéia clara disso. Mas não é essa a idéia.
A idéia para nós é enxergar que a divisão da responsabilidade recai em nós, em todos nós. Somos todos responsáveis juntos. Sim, estamos certos em lutar com todas as nossas forças contra as medidas injustas que nos são impostas; estamos certos em dedicar toda a nossa força e criatividade para um mundo melhor. Mas como seres políticos, somos igualmente responsáveis por cada uma de nossas escolhas políticas, pelos meios que temos proporcionado e pelo nosso silêncio cada vez que não admitimos nossas fraquezas e nossos erros. Nós, que não agradamos o povo para ganhar votos, nós que não temos interesse em explorar ninguém, temos a capacidade, sob essas trágicas circunstâncias, de sermos honestos com nós mesmos e com os que estão ao nosso redor.
O que o movimento anarquista grego está experimentando no momento é um torpor total. Porque há condições de pressão para alguns pensamentos de auto-crítica que vai machucar, Diante do horror do fato de que as pessoas que morreram estavam do “nosso lado”, o lado dos trabalhadores – trabalhadores que estão em condições de extrema dificuldade que possivelmente teriam escolhido a possibilidade de marchar ao nosso lado se as coisas fossem diferentes em seu local de trabalho – além disso, são também confrontados com passeatas que colocam a vida das pessoas em perigo. Embora (e isso é inquestionável) não houvesse a intenção de matar, esse é um problema essencial que pode gerar muita discussão – alguma discussão a respeito dos alvos que temos e os meios que escolhemos.
O incidente não aconteceu à noite, em alguma ação de sabotagem. Aconteceu durante a maior passeata da história grega contemporânea. E aqui, uma série de questões dolorosas aparecem: em uma passeata de 150.000 a 200.000, sem precedentes nos últimos anos, há realmente a necessidade de alguma violência “a mais”? Quando você vê milhares gritando “queime, queime o Parlamento” e xingando os policiais, outro incêndio em banco tem algo mais para realmente oferecer ao movimento?
Quando o movimento por si só se torna de massas – como o de dezembro de 2008 – o que uma ação pode oferecer, se essa ação excede o limite do que uma sociedade pode aceitar (ao menos no momento atual), ou se essa ação coloca vidas humanas em risco?
Quando saímos às ruas, somos um com as pessoas ao nosso redor, estamos próximos a elas, ao seu lado, com elas – é por isso, que ao fim do dia, o porque de trabalharmos como jumentos escrevendo textos e posters – e nossas próprias cláusulas são o simples parâmetro no muito que converge. Chegou a hora de falarmos francamente sobre violência e examinarmos criticamente a cultura de violência específica que está se desenvolvendo na Grécia nos últimos anos. Nosso movimento não tem se fortalecido por conta dos meios que às vezes usamos, mas mais por conta da nossa articulação política. Dezembro de 2008 não se tornou histórico somente porque milhares pegaram e atiraram pedras e molotovs, mas principalmente por conta de suas características políticas e sociais – e nesse nível, seu legado é rico. É claro que respondemos à violência exercida sobre nós, e assim somos chamados para ao invés de falar sobre nossas escolhas políticas assim como os meios que temos assumido, reconhecendo os nossos limites – e os deles.
Quando falamos de liberdade, isso significa que a cada momento duvidamos do que ontem tínhamos por garantido. Que nos atrevemos a ir até o fim e, evitando alguns clichês políticos, olhar as coisas diretamente nos olhos, como elas são. Está claro que desde que não consideramos a violência como um fim nela mesma, não podemos deixar que ela lance sombras nas dimensões políticas de nossas ações. Não somos assassinos nem santos. Somos parte de um movimento social, com nossas fraquezas e erros. Hoje, ao invés de nos sentirmos fortes depois de uma passeata tão grandiosa, nos sentimos estarrecidos, para dizer o mínimo. Isso fala por si. Devemos tornar essa experiência trágica em uma busca interna e inspirar outra no fim do dia, agindo todos com base em nossa consciência. E o cultivar de tal consciência coletiva é o nosso suporte.
Occupied London
Tradução > Filipe Ferrari
agência de notícias anarquistas-ana
A abelha voa vai
vem volta pesada
dourada de pólen
Eugénia Tabosa
Is the movement so fragile that a few dead bodies will break it? And fuck their’s more chance of getting killed by a car than a molotov! Shit happens, but we must not stop fighting, just be more carefull and helping each others to support the grief that an insurrection will provoc. I was impress no one was killed in molotov throwing during dec 08, now it happend so what? We will turn our back on insurrection and create a extra-parlemantarie organisation and convince one person at the time. No fuck off we fight harder! Hard Struggle!
If in fact, anarchists were responsible for the tragic death at the Marfin building, then the criticism here is absolutely necessary. But I’m actually surprised that so many here are uncritically prepared to accept the bourgeois media’s and the State’s account of events as they unfolded. Why is that?
I think the best thing to do is to re-assess the situation, figure out what went wrong, and re-evaluate tactics to make sure this incident is not repeated. I don’t think it benefits anyone for the movement to be struck down and made “numb” by this. That won’t help those who have already died, and it won’t help those who stand to suffer in the future.
It may be best to be honest and express remorse. Be sympathetic to the public’s concerns. But also be assertive in reassuring them that it is never the movement’s intention to cause mindless mayhem, mindless destruction, or mindless death and injury. And then prove it to them. Don’t fold and don’t apologize or accept responsibility unless you are in fact responsible and prepared to accept the legal ramifications.
The movement is not, in its current stage, fit to engage in open combat with any government. The reason a police force doesn’t resort to using live ammunition to control a protest is because the government does not want to deal with the fallout of public outrage or international condemnation. However, that could change the moment public opinion changes. If the public feels threatened, then the government could use lethal force to subdue a crowd, and there would be no outrage thrown at the state for its actions.
I don’t think it’s wise to engage the state on that front, at least not at the current moment. The movement needs public support at this stage. At the very least, it needs to avoid public condemnation.
The saying goes that sometimes the appearance of strength is more valuable than strength itself. The movement, right now, has to play on the appearance of strength. This is, in actuality, the true purpose of these displays of violence. They are “shows” of destruction; their power is in the display. When ordinary people start to die, you give the state every reason to bring down the hammer on all of it.
In short, the movement is not yet ready to inflict or take on casualties. Aggression is a tool. Use it carefully. If you can accomplish more through restraint than aggression, then do so.
psychox what an insight
1)The experience of the fabrication of “caso Escala” in Spain and many others in History against the anarchists make me quite reticent to actually drop the possibility of a police-media charade.
2) There were loads of people in the streets of Athens on Wednesday and thousands of them were wearing hoodies, not just the anarchists. This stuff could have been done by anyone and by from any political sign from anarchists, to autonomists, to people from the KKe, Pame, even a mere group of junkies… Everyone was in the streets that day. The fact that one group had been seen in the scene means nothing so normally if you want to carry out an action of this kind you do not go alone.
3) In the case that a group of people within the radical-revolutionary-anarchist-whatever political spectrum did it,the self-criticism, the assumption of responsibilities the honour and bravery put on acknowledging their mistake in comuniquees like this one and the disposition to effectively learn from what has been done wrongly are more than evident.No one feels good about what happened and steps are being taken towards a more consequent line of action.
4) To those who still want to keep cowardly spitting their fury against the “anarchists”… ask yourselves how many times can a bourguoise, a cop, a boss, a politician afford to screw and get away with it… 5?, 10?, 20?, all their fucking “professional career”?… However if an anarchist (we do not know yet if that is the case by the way) screws just once, all the dogs from the media, the security forces, the parliament, the exploitative companies and the class traitors join forces to puke their resentment and hatred on the whole movement. This is not very fair we must say but otherwise we cannot be caught by surprise on it.
5) The Greek anarchists are involved and organise themselves lots of activities that have nothing to do with violenct stuff and most of the time I have seen them in action respect to that matter I must say that has been with a high standard of responsibility and avoiding at all times to harm innocent people. Nobody is going to change the present situation by giving fucking flowers to the riot cops that is for sure.
6) There is a media fabricated image of the Greek anarchist as people who only think on burning and destroying stuff and who lacks any concrete political goals. This is false and when we buy such a pile of poo from the mainstream media we are either showing personal animosity and dislike towards these people or being highly gullible. In other words we are either behaving like cowards and traitors or letting ourselves to be deceived for the one-sided information spread by the State and Capitalism mouthpieces.
7)In a situation like the one that Greece is going through now you can cut the tension in the air. Absolutely everyone was angry the other day. Everyone here seems to disregard the fact of howthe structural violence, that is the violence that originates all the rest types of it (the violence of explotaition) has fueled the whole situation making things like this more likely to happen. To me it is quite normal that in such a charged atmosphere someone has overreacted and let him or herself to get carried away to the point of making such a tragical mistake. In any case we should also emphasize that the whole thing has been an accident and no one had the slightest intention of killing these people, at least among the anarchist of other people politically involved. It is true that this in itself does not justify what happned at all and that something must be done about it but I cannot help to feel a deep sense of disgust while reading some of the FILTH THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE WRITTING IN THESE COMMENTS. Sorry to tell you but some of you are showing nothing but a total lack of understanding and a stupid sense of self-importance and hypocritical-moralistic righteousness that helps very little to clarify the problem and find a solution.
8)Attacking the wholoe anarchist spectrum withouth knowing for sure that there were actually anarchists involved in the situation also means to assume that what a minority may or may not have done defines what the rest of the people involved in it are. I am a witness of the fact that this is not true at all.
9) Focusing in one unique aspect (the most sensationalist one) on what happened on Wednesday ignoring the rest, the whole picture-situation, equates to play the game that the enemy want us to play so lets discuss about this matter towards a practical goal and avoid moralistic judeo-christian judgements, condemnation without evidence and more bullshit of the like.
WE NEED TO KEEK A COLD HEAD AND A GENERAL FRAMEWORK.
IT IS NECESSARY TO FOCUS IN THE WHOLE PICTURE.
WE NEED ACTIONS OF SOLIDARITY WITH THE GREEK PEOPLA AND ANARCHISTS ALL OVER EUROPE; TODAY PROBABLY MORE THAN IN DECEMBER.
THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE IN THE CASE OF THE SO-CALLED “PIGS” OF THE EURO ZONE (i.e. Portugal, Ireland-Italy, Greece itself and Spain). Lads, I do not know if you have noticed this but we are not Europe anymore. WE ARE LATIN AMERICA IN THE SODDING NORTH OF AFRICA.
GET READY FOR MORE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT GOING TO FINISH HERE.
SOLIDARITY EVERYWHERE.
A BIG HUG TO THE GREEK ANARCHIST COMRADES.
LA LUCHA SIGUE…
I would like to make contact with anarchist women / anarchafeminists in greece.
Does anyone know of any anarchafeminist groups there?
@YETI
Firstly the point is not whether the police or the state fabricated this charade or not, the point is that people on this board are rationalizing it as being manifested by capitalist infrastructures therefore justifying such behaviour. This relays the message that the so-called movement condones senseless violence.
Furthermore, when comments are made by people like EXARCHION as this:
“the reason that the Greek movement has gotten where it is, while other more pacifistic and unaggressive anarchist movements have failed, is because of the violence”. This does not help reinforce the ideals that the movement is supposedly about. On the contrary if anything it raises the question whether the so-called movement is attracting the wrong elements of society and merely acting in a revolutionary manner for the sake of revolution and not for the sake of change.
Secondly, it is true that there is much frustration in Greece right now with the economy. The vast majority of people in Greece are concerned about how they will cover their expenses over the next few years because of all of the austerity measures put forward. The lifestyles they have become accustomed to are going to be very difficult to maintain. The lifestyles that Greeks love, and really have no intention of abandoning. The populous never really gave a fuck about your so-called movement. They put up with your groups shenanigans because they believe in freedom of expression. And the December riots happened because the police allowed the small number of idiots to run rampant through downtown Athens. That’s it.
Your personal yet sorry attempts to romanticise this so-called movement YETI are further put into question by what happened at Marfin Bank on Wednesday, and not simply because of what happened but because of the insensitive and foolish responses to that event on this board.
@ IQ under 60
Cool story, bro.
This post as well as some others from Libcom and Occupied London about the current class struggles in Greece are reproduced on our own Blog of Information on Class Struggles (http://gcinfos.canalblog.com/).
We also published a new review in Greek:
ΚΟΜΜΟΥΝΙΣΜΟΣ Νο3 (Απριλιοσ 2010) – Κεντρικό Όργανο στα ελληνικά της ΔΚΟ
http://gci-icg.org/greek/kommounismos3.pdf
Η ΟΙΚΟΝΟΜΙΑ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΣΕ ΚΡΙΣΗ. ΑΣ ΤΗΝ ΑΠΟΤΕΛΕΙΩΣΟΥΜΕ!!
Σχόλια ενάντια στη δικτατορία της οικονομίας
Για την λατρεια τησ εργασιασ
Αξιοποίηση/Αποαξιοποίηση
anarcho
@ IQ under 60 is a troll who has consistantly dominated the threads here over the last few days, disrupting useful debate. He/she maintains that the @ movement is irrelevant and completely marginal to events within Greece. This makes me question why He/she is expending so much time/energy/effort engaging with us. I have argued that this person should just be ignored as a disruptive and divisive contributor.
try
ek-fyles
http://ek-fyles.blogspot.com/
REALITY CHECK.
If the social resistance to the ‘austerity measures’ of international capital continues and the Greek government shows the slightest sign of political weakness, there is the strong possibility that the IMF/EU deal will fail, (the EU has already threatened to withdraw its support). This would either mean that the Greek government will default on its obligations, or be forced to restructure its debt. This would precipitate a banking crisis across Europe, and then the world. The plunge on the markets on the 6 May due to the riots illustrates this. The Greek population is inevitably going to suffer a catastrophic fall in living standards either way. It is imperative that the @ movement in Greece does not succumb to unproven slander, but also to be aware that it is vulnerable to falsification by state agencies who will endeavour to turn its own tactics against itself (one way or another, it ought to be recognised that fire is an indiscriminate weapon when used against buildings and that clandestine armed struggle is easily recuperated and manipulated). Physical resistance and attacks on the forces of the state during trade union demonstrations are having an international effect, however, since these actions can and are being portrayed as purely destructive, the Greek @ movement needs to also consider moving towards more constructive activities. (Here I do not condemn insurrectionary tactics) Since there is such a widespread sense of disillusionment and betrayal with all political parties and unions in Greece, there is an opportunity to promote ideas of autogestion within communities and workplaces –without ideological embellishment. This is an unprecedented opening waiting to be exploited (The radical action of the teachers at the ERT studio which surely wasn’t union sanctioned, and showed that truly radical action is possible outside of orthodox power systems, and recent occupations). The movement needs to be ahead of the game with this- Spreading the idea of popular assemblies where it can, using the example of the Argentine events of 2001-2 as much as possible (“ALL of them must go!”), since representative democracy has so spectacularly failed to meet the needs of ordinary people and has decided to punish them for its own failings, the democratic popular urge will need a new outlet. (The simple tactic of spray-painting “Popular neighbourhood assembly here Weds. 6pm”)
While the International bourgeoisie would much prefer proletarian passivity through Trade Union tokenism, Stalinism or the truncheon, if it is faced with direct, democratic self-organisation it will merely expose itself for what it truly is – a murderous robber-class bloated with its own unreconciled contradictions.
Greek comrades are breaking the States monopoly on violence and must continue to do so, albeit wisely, they must also rise to the challenge by coming out of their ideological ghetto and breaking the States democratic monopoly, and in doing so widen and radicalise the struggle both nationally and internationally.
Hi. i’m an american, living in Athens for the past two years and observing the resistance to the state. i very much support your intentions and your anger towards the state and the elite, and powerful international economic forces. however i have been continually frustrated by the lack of knowledge, creativity, discipline and courage exhibited by the resistance movement. there are techniques for resistance that have proven to create meaningful change in different places at different times, and violence is not one of them… even violence against property without inflicting injury is ultimately contrary to meaningful change, because it multiplies anger and polarizes opinion.
you need to study the work of Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. These are the practices that work. they are guaranteed to work if the cause is just and they are implemented with love, courage and a TOTAL commitment to the common good. from my observations, i’m not entirely sure that the greek movement is ready to make this commitment, as it appears that many in the resistance are still motivated by personal ambition and ego, and lack the discipline and courage and compassion to really make change for the better. (change caused by violence and ego, just continues the cycle of greed and oppression)
i hope you can prove me wrong. are you willing to make sacrifices for justice? instead of storming parliament. sit down quietly on all the entrances and in the streets, without . don’t let anybody in or out. if they beat you, smile and tell them how much you love them, how much compassion you feel for the anger inside them that makes them so cruel. they will quickly be filled with shame. if they arrest you, may 100 more activists take your place. when it gets dark, you stay. if they prevent people from bringing you food, you go hungry. this is the kind of resistance that inspires and unites a people for the pursuit of justice.
Study Gandhi. Study Dr. King.
invite the Ruckus Society to teach workshops on non-violent workshops to members of the movement in Greece (http://www.ruckus.org/).
it’s the only chance for Greece. otherwise you’ll just bring about a regime more oppressive than the one you have now (which is not so bad compared to many around the world, including the USA).
Good Luck with LOVE!
http://www.anarchy.no/greek.html
“Fresh Brown Cards to the liers CNN and Marfin Egnatia Bank: Banks torched etc. by marxist leftwing extremist arsonist terrorist ochlarchists – not anarchists. The anarchists condemn the and terrorist attacks.
Ad so called “anarchists” that used firebombs and similar.
The thruth is that terrorism, including bomb, arson attacks and firebomb attacks and similar – including threats of terrorism and calls for terrorism, is a form of ochlarchy, and very much a top down approach, ultra-authoritarian and extremist, and not anarchist, see the notes on “Anarchy is optimal order” and “What is an extremist…” above, and http://www.anarchy.no/directaction.html . The anarchists condemn terrorism and are strongly opposed to all forms of extremism. These terrorists using firebombs, so called “anarchists”, falsely called so by CNN and Marfin Egnatia Bank, are anti-capitalist, i.e. socialist, and ultra-authoritarian. Authoritarian socialists are marxists – not anarchists, and should not be called so by the media. IAT-APT has a.o.t. used the “litmus test” of 14.10.2009 in this analysis.
These so called “anarchists”, terrorists using firebombs, are in reality not anarchists, they are extremists and ochlarchists. The only violence anarchists accept is defensive violence, proportionate in pure self defense, not terrorism, i.e. extremism and ochlarchy. Other violent actions are ochlarchy and ochlarchist, and not anarchistic”.
Source: http://www.anarchy.no/greek.html
To repeat: MORE SO NOW HE HAS POSTED THE SHITTY-BABBLE LINK THAT HE HAS. OBVIOUSLY A TROLL PROVOCATEUR.
IQ above 60 is:
1.secret agent
2.policeman
3.son/doughter of capitalist pig
4.kapitalist pig
5.nazi scum
Vote pleas
Never mind, just ignore this bastard
@OSAZASVJE
I’m ONE OF YOU ! Look in the mirror!
Just so everyone’s aware, that anarchy.no website is a fraud, designed to confuse people. Im in the actual IFA, so it annoys me to see it posted (even by a troll).
For details, see: http://www.iaf-ifa.org/documents/anorg_warning_norway.html
@ Vlognomad – you should read “How Non-Violence Protects The State” by Peter Gelderloos.
Do you agree with Gandhi when he said of the Holocaust that “the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs”?
If you saw a woman being raped, would you just sit there, smug in your self-righteous pacifism? If that woman tried to fight back, would you criticise her, tell her to stop struggling and advise her to smile and tell the guy how much she loved him, in a futile attempt to ‘shame’ him?
Pacifism is worse than useless.
Hi Anarcho.
i appreciate your response to my comment, but your reply reveals some of the ignorance that i was referring to.
there is a difference between non-violence and pacifism. of course we should restrain a rapist or attacker in an isolated situation as you mentioned. but that’s very different from political and social challenges with many points of view and complex, asymmetrical structures of power.
As to your question about Gandhi, he may have been mistaken about the best tactic for the jews in the holocaust. however, that does not diminish the accomplishments of his movement in India, uniting people in a common cause and defeating a much more formidable and ruthless oppressor than the Greek people face today.
i’m coming from a practical perspective. not a moral or self-righteous ideology. few violent revolutions have created fundamental, positive and lasting change. how do you create a peaceful society through violence? it has never happened in history. one monster is simply replaced by another. what is accomplished? if the cause is just, and the will is strong, non-violence is the most effective form of resistance and catalyst for progressive change.
Protip: don’t start responses by calling your opponent ignorant.
A) Rape is not an “isolated incident”, its a product of patriarchal social relations.
B) You should probably read some stuff about Gandhi that isn’t liberals gushing about how he single handedly turned India into the utopia we know and love. The book i mentioned is a good place to start, its online and you can torrent it.
C) Telling your oppressor that you love them is not a practical tactic. Many women do that to the men that abuse them, to no effect. FYI, Gandhi beat his wife, did you know that?
D) Diversity of tactics contains all the tactics professed by non-violence advocates, and more besides. How is this less practical?
E) The idea that a ‘just cause’ and a ‘strong will’ is all that is required is idealistic nonsense.
F) The equation ‘cant get a peaceful society by using violence’ is some nice rhetoric, but isn’t much use to people living in the real world. Violence (like all tactics) is a tool, it can be used and it can be misused. Likewise, peaceful actions can be used for good or for ill.
G) I could reply to your claim that attempts to change the world that haven’t ruled out defensive violence have only replaced one set of oppressors with another in a number of ways.
First, non-violence hasnt created a utopia yet either.
Second, where it has been tried it has replaced one set of oppressors with another.
Third, its not that advocates of diversity of tactics think that ‘violence’ will somehow solve all the worlds issues, and that it doesn’t matter whether its being done by Leninists, Nationalists, et al. So to say ‘violence hasn’t created a peaceful society’ shows either muddled thinking on your part or a conscious attempt to confuse the argument.
I could go on…
@ANARCHO: You bring up some interesting points, but I have some questions.
1) Rape: Are you saying that it only happens within the context of a societies that are patriarchal? Do you think that natural forces have anything to do with it?
2)Women that stay with men that abuse them, are they representative of ALL women?
3)Do you believe that the dynamics of individual rights are the same as those of collective rights?
4)In a society like Greece’s where laws against rape, sexual harassment, physical abuse and the like are enforced using violence, that such specific acts of violence are oppressive?
I just want to say that if it were me that died in the fire, while it was happening, I would be panicked and terrified and thinking “this sucks for me and everyone who knows and depends on me”, but I’ve escaped death a couple of times now (the whole time thinking I’d be dead). All that was on my mind while it was happening was “if the struggle continues by others, at least that’s something; in the end, your own life is never a guarantee.” That’s not about being committing to anarchist politics, that’s the basics of being committed to life and recognizing in a clear-eyed way where you stand as a worker.
Thankyou anarcho for the info on ifa, please be aware that IQ above 60 is also Vlognomad,( and at least one other name) and is an online spoiler-provocateur- this can be seen by the identical syntax, references and arguments ‘he’ puts forward, dodgy links and lying eye-witness reports which do not correspond to footage of events (police attacking crowd on 7th May). Ignore the filthy state dog.
@PSEUDONYM Reality is a difficult thing for some to swallow. I have not posted as any other name on this board. I give an opinion, and I present facts. What happened that night at the demonstration is fact. It may not suit some people’s agendas, tough luck. What is even more sad is when the truth is denied without being questioned and censored. This is so Stalin!
I was under the impression for awhile that the people that moderated this board had some sense of integrity about that. My mistake.
Here’s a little dose of reality testing for our guest troll, IQ above 60.
‘Majority of Greeks support more protests: polls”
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64718W20100508
@RICHARD Protesting is one thing, throwing molotovs and having people die because of it is another. The majority of Greeks are non-violent too. That’s why the police are so lax, and that’s why rioters get away with murder.
Mit mondhatnánk őszintén a szerdai athéni eseményekről?
Mit mondhatnánk őszintén a szerdai athéni eseményekről anarchista szempontból?
Mi lehetne az állaspontunk három ember haláláról – bármi is legyen haláluk oka?
Mi lehetne a mi pozíciónk úgy mint emberi lényeknek, de úgyis mint harcban állóknak? Nekünk, akik nem fogadják el a sajnálatos „elszigetelt esetek” teróriáját, ha az állami, vagy a rendőri brutalitásról van szó, nekünk, akik leleplezzük az állam és a kapitalista rendszer mindennapos erőszakát. Nekünk, akiknek mindig is volt bátorságunk néven nevezni a dolgokat, nekünk, akik mindig is felhívták a figyelmet a rendőörsön bevándorlókat kínzókra, vagy azokra, akik mások életével játszanak az irodákban, vagy éppen a TV-stúdiókban.
Mi az, mit éppen nekünk kell elmondanunk ezekben a napokban? Elbújhatnánk mi is a banki alkalmazottak szakszervezetének deklarációja, vagy éppen az adott bank dolgozóinak vádló szavai mögé, vagy mi is hangsúlyozhatnánk a tényt, hogy az áldozatok kényszerítve voltak arra, hogy a bankban maradjanak, egy épületben , amelynek semmiféle tűzvédelm terve nem volt és ahol kulcsra zárva tartották az alkalmazottakat. Mi is kiemelhetnénk a tényt, hogy az a rakás szar, akit Vngepulosznak, a bank tulajdonosának hívnak miben felelős, vagy felídézhetnénk azt a példátlan megtorlási hullámot, amely a halálesetek utan Athénban lezajlott. Mindenki, aki szerda este Exerchiában, Athén népi kerületében járt (vagyis arra mert járni) pontosan tudja miről beszélünk. De a lényeg nem itt van.
Számunkra a lényeg annak a felelősségnek a vállalása, mely minket, minket mindnyájunkat érint.
Mert mind felelősek vagyunk. Igen, igazuk van, hogy teljes erőnkkel vállaljuk a harcot a ránk kényszerített igazságtalan intézkedésekkel szemben, igen igazuk van abban is, hogy minden kreativitásunkkal, minden erőnkkel harcolunk egy jobb világért. De úgy is mint politikai lényeknek, vállalunk kell a felelősséget minden politikai döntésünkért, minden eszközért, melyet használunk a harcban, de minden hallgatásunkért is, mikor el kellene ismernünk hibáinkat, vagy gyengeségünket.
Nekünk, akik nem azok az emberek vagyunk, akik becsapunk másokat, hogy megkapjuk a szavazatukat, nekünk, akiknek semmiféle érdekük nem fűződik kizsákmányolni másokat, éppen nekünk van meg az a tulajdonságunk, hogy tragikus körülmények között is őszinték legyünk magunkkal és környezetünkkel.
Az egész görög anarchista mozgalom az, mely kénytelen szembenézni ezekkel a tapasztalatokkal, és ez az a mozgalom, amely a teljes bénultság állapotába került. Éppen azért mert olyan dolgokkal szembesülünk, melyek komoly önkritikát igényelnek, ami a legtöbbször igen fájdalmas dolog.
Túl a borzalmon, melyet három ember halála okozott, akik a „mi oldalunkon”, azaz a munkásnők és a munkások oldalán álltak, akik a lehető legnezebb körülmények között dolgoznak, akik talán mellettünk meneteltek volna, ha munkahelyükön a körülmények nem lettek volna ily nehezek, túl mindezen, szembe kell néznünk azokkal a tüntetőkkel is, akik mások életét veszélyeztetik. Még ha (és ez nem is lehet kérdés) seninek sem volt célja embereket ölni, a legfontosabb kérdés, mely minden bizonnyal még igen sok vitát fog kiváltani, az, hogy megvitassuk a célokat, melyeket kitűztünk magunk elé, és az eszközöket, melyeket használnunk elérésükre. Ez az eset nem ejszaka tortent egy szabotazs-akcio soran. Ami tortent a modern kor legnagyobb gorog demonstraciojan zajlott. Es eppen ez az, amely nehany igen fajdalmas kerdest vet fel szamunkra: altalanossagban felvetve a dolgot, vajon egy tuntesen melyen 150-200.000 ember vesz reszt egy ilyen „magas fokozatu” eroszak szukseges? Amikor latjuk, hogy tobb ezren orditjak velunk, hogy 3felgyujtjuk; felgyujtjuk a Parlamentet” es sertegetik a rendoroket, akkor vajon egy bank felgyujtasa ad valami pluszt a mozgalomnak?
Amikor maga a mozgalom volt hatalmas, mint mondjuk 2008 decembereben, mit tud adni egy ilyen akcio, amely atlepi a tarsadlom altal (legalabbis jelen pillanatban) jogosnak tartott hatarokat es masok eletet sodorja veszelybe?
Amikor az utcakra vonulunk, csak egyek vagyuk a minket korulvevo emberek kozul, kozel erezzuk magunkat hozzajuk, vallvetve harcolunk (noha estenkent mi meg dolgozunk mint az allatok, hogy szovegeket, plakatokat keszitsunk a mozgalom szamara) es bizony gyakran a mi mozgamlunk politikai tartalma az egyetlen melyben sokan magukra ismernek.
Most jott el az ido, hogy oszinten beszeljunk az eroszakrol, es kritikusan szemugyre vegyuk azt a kulturat mely az eroszak korul kialakult az utobbi evekben. A mozgalmunk nem attol valik erosse, hogy idorol idore eroszakos eszkozokat hasznalunk, hanem annak politikai jelentese miatt. Igy 2008 decembere sem azert tortenelmi jelentosegu, mert ezrek keltek fel, vagy mert elrepult tobb ezr utcako, vagy Molotov-koktel, hanem a mozgalom politikai es tarsadalmi karaktere miatt.
Termesztesen tovabbra is valaszolni fogunk a minket ero eroszakra, de a magunk reszerol mindig beszelni fogunk a politikai celjainkrol is es az eszkozokrol melyekkel ezeket el tudjuk erni – mindig elismerve mozgalmunk lehetosegeinke hatarait.
Amikor mi a szabadsagrol beszelunk, az azt is jelenti, hogy minden pillanatban ujra megkerdojelezzuk azokat a dolgokat, melyeket tegnap meg biztosnak gondoltunk.
Ez azt is jelenti, hogy felreteve a politikai fecsegest es a kliseket szembe merunk nezni a problemainkkal, ugy ahogy azok jelentkeznek. Vilagos, hogy mivel mi az eroszakot nem magert tamogatjuk, hanem mint eszkozt, nem engedhetjuk meg, hogy ez az eszkoz arnyekot vessen politikai cselekvesunkre es celjainkra. Nem vagyunk se szentek, se gyilkosok.
Mi is reszet kepezzunk ennek a tarsadalmi mozgalomnak, melynek megvannak a gyongesegei es hibai. Most, ahelyett hogy egy hatalmas tuntetes utan erosebbnek ereznenk magunkat, mint valaha, az egesz mozgalom megbenult, ha mondhatunk ilyet. Es ez mindent elmond. Meg kell kiseerlenunk ennek a tragikus tapasztalatnak a tudatossa tetelet, hogy mindannyiunkat arra inspiraljon, hogy ujra megtalajuk ontudatunkat. Mert eppen a kollektiv ontudatunk a mostan tet.
Italian translation here:
http://www.informa-azione.info/comunicato_di_occupied_london_sugli_eventi_del_5_maggio_in_grecia_eng
I second the big hug to all Greek comrades. Thanks for this.
Whoever threw the bomb should have had the sense to know that there would be regular workers in the building. They should have had the foresight to see that their deaths might occur. They ought to have considered the full extent of their actions before their stupid act. If they didn’t realise any of this they have no business involving themselves in any form of political change. They need to take responsibility for what they have done.
Sorry to say this, but judging by the photos posted as a link on libcom, it looks as though (IF these are the perpetrators) the boys who set fire to the Marfin were just that, boys. To me, they look as if they’re barely in their late ‘teens, and without being ‘ageist’,it may well be that these lads lack a developed capacity for making reasoned calls of judgement. Never the less, should they have been inspired by ‘heroic/macho’ riot-centred propaganda, then the Greek movement still has a pressing need to reevaluate the use of violence in word and deed…
http://www.viceland.com/blogs/en/2010/05/07/the-greeks-are-still-fucked/
This is a good and useful analysis. One of the most important points in neatly encapsulated in the observation that we “do not accept that there are such things as “isolated incidents” (of police or state brutality).”
This accident may have been the actions of one person, but the problem for us concerns the institutionalisation of violence within Anarchy. Not only of violence, in fact, but of a reified logic of struggle that some use to justify anything that “we” do, and to excuse a total disregard for wider society. The effect of this is to separate off Anarchy as a realm of specialism, a fragment of society masquerading as a whole (exactly our criticism of “democratic” capitalist institutions). The result is a vanguard of specialists who apparently (as the reactions to this incident within Anarchy have made painfully obvious) feel justified in acts of violence against anyone and anything.
Frankly this is a crisis of Anarchy, and things cannot go on as before because those who still have a sense of that it is communality that defines and justfies struggle, and see the articulation and mobilisation of this communal body as the means (and even end, to an extent) of revolution – these people will no longer tolerate the specialists who wish to justify and excuse these anti-revolutionary acts of violence. This is a crisis; this is a vertiable split, and it runs to the core of Anarchy.
Excellent text Occupied London, keep up the awesome work!
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